GB3JB

[g7eby]

Further to my discussion with Ian, M1OOO and Dave, G3ZXX today, as requested (by Dave) here is a topic that seems to have mixed feelings amongst us all.
I am not either for or against D-Star (Digital Smart Technology for Amateur Radio).
Talking to Geoff, G0EVW, (keeper of GB3DR) his thoughts about new technology became apparent when JB went on air for the first time, he had to get a rig with CTCSS! (I think that follows with several others down that way however!)

It is really taking off North of us, or so it seems. It's an icom only system at the moment, but DV (digital voice) 'boxes' for rigs like the Yeasu FT857 and the FT8900 with 9600 baud packet connectors 'might' become available. At the moment, the technology is licensed and not in the public domain, yet.

There is basically only one rig available at the moment, the ic2820, with the D-Star board fitted, (option) at over £500, so not cheap! It does have APRS and GPS fitted however. Two icom handies are also in the list, the E91 and the E92, both being dedicated to D-Star.

Reports are varied. I think as most of the northerners have paid out most of their life savings to get onto this mode, they are saying it is brilliant!
My first experience in Martin Lynches a week or so ago, was met with this:

"gur eih reweap kijan blurrrp issss shhhh yankee, over?"

Then there was loads of hissing and loads of data noise...
(The user was shouting into the mic they said conveniently!)

When system settled down, the audio was clear, but lacked a lot of something, voice! It was very bland and lacked a lot of top and bottom.
A bit like the new Tetra system.

Eventually, all the repeaters will be internet linked, and any user can call anyone else on the system, if they are there. Not sure how this happens, but there is a 'last heard' feature on the radios. Text messages are also sendable over the network.
Squeekies can also be blacklisted, so they can just pirate another callsign and join again, so I can't exactly see how this is all going to work!!

Anyway, feel free to post comments and ask any questions about the pro's and cons, I am on the D-Star UK yahoo group, and am in contact with several of the guys on there regularly.


TTFN.
Neil.

icom info here:

[m1cmn]

Hello Everyone.

I feel that DSTAR is a nice add-on to the modes we play with, and something else to experement with.

Down here in Kent GB7FK DSTAR repeater has been running since November, and on the gateway since December.
There are quite a few local users who have purchased radios, and are enjoying the learning journey.

We have done 2 presentations to the local clubs, both of which have been well attended with some mixed feelings on this mode.

The main problem at the moment we are experiencing is the QRM on the input freq of the repeater, we are waiting for a frequency change.

I think the important thing is - its not going to replace our current system tommorrow, its just something else to try.

its good fun, but realise its not for everyone!

73 Matt M1CMN
Repeater Keeper GB7FK
Folkestone.

[g7eby]

Thanks for that Matt, Kent does seem to have a few users at present, the main contenders are mainly Yorkshire and the North East at the moment.
Scotland seem to have embraced the new technology, and of course, London areas.

Below is a current list of D-Star repeaters:



Here's an interesting article about D-Star around the world:



There is a meeting in Bedford area next month, but I am not sure is I can get away that weekend.

Will keep you all posted!

73's
Neil.
G7EBY.

[g3zxx]

Hi All,

If you are like me, and know NOTHING about this subject, other than what you have heard others say, and thus have perhaps derived a perception, which may of course be true or false, then perhaps you will find the following web sites of use:



"This group aims to provide information, support and documentation to people interested in implementing or learning about the Dstar system within the UK. Constructive discussion is encouraged. This is primarily aimed at licensed radio amateurs; however anyone who has an interest or wishes to contribute is warmly welcome to join."



"D-Star for the second century of Amateur Radio. During the second century of Amateur Radio; single-sideband, repeaters, packet radio, and microprocessor technology all took radio to new levels. Now D-STAR’s protocols are opening up new possibilities for Radio Amateurs. Just as high speed digital networks led to brand-new ways to communicate, D-STAR brings digital systems to the amateur bands to create entirely new radio systems and services. Search this site and discover a whole new perspective on amateur radio.... "

I personally have several basic questions/comments about the mode and its apparent promotion by commercial organisations.
It is my belief that typically changes in spectrum use, modes, bandwidths, and band planning are typically 'need' or 'regulation' lead, and promoted by IARU and national societies, etc., and not apparently by commercial interest.

Firstly, I perceive that the uptake of the mode seems to be being driven by commercial considerations, as opposed to an actual need.

When the company who imports and distributes the only equipment, that I perceive is capable of using this mode, is offering apparently discounted repeater systems and *filtered*ociated equipment, when a registered group buys TEN of their radios, I do start to wonder. See this link:

Why have they not been so forthcoming to repeater groups in the past, which I perceive will have also promoted sales for the manufacturers, distributors and dealers, of Amateur Radio Equipment.

Is this a case of technology being developed, that is desperately seeking a use !

I also have a concern with regard to frequency allocation for these repeaters and also signal bandwidth.

Unless I am reading the specification incorrectly, I perceive that the 6kHz required for the digital voice system, is actually wider than that need for a conventional voice repeater, operating on the 12.5kHz channel spacing.

We are also in the situation, where it is getting very difficult to find a channel on 2m where QRM/N will be minimised, for an *filtered*ogue voice repeater. As is our experience with GB3JB.

But some how we seem to have found space for numerous d-star repeaters, with more on the way.

I would really like to be wrong on this point, but I perceive a situation where you'll only be able to have QRM FREE qso on a d-star repeater.

Call me an old synic if you like, but I really would like someone with genuine knowledge and experience of the mode to explain the system fully to me, and explain why we apparently need it, if not for purly commercial profit.

Cheers & 73's
Dave, G3ZXX.

[Advertizing]

[g7eby]

Reading on the groups, it seems Icom are now releasing a G2 (Generation 2) version of D-Star. It will be backwardly compatible with G1 user equipment, but not the other way around.

As they have flooded the market with G1 equipment, they will be offering upgrades. (Apparently.)

To add, Icom America are now pushing quite hard the 'other' digital voice mode, APCO25 or P25 for short.
P25 is used by UK PMR users in various guises, so at least second-hand equipment should be available in the future.

As D-Star is an amateur only mode, and a hardware one at that, I find it hard to believe it will be sustained, while P25 should in theory be, in my opinion, the mode to go for.

Saying that, users of GB3OK in South London will be in for a shock, that will soon become GB7OK, a D-Star regenerative node (repeater) when the NOV is issued.

Several other digital regenerative nodes (repeaters) are on the cards for Surry and Amersham areas, mainly on 70cm, with various offsets. Some are the normal 7.6MHz, the new 6MHz, others are 9MHz, depending on the area and MOD usage.
As D-Star doesn't use CTCSS, it would be interesting to see how users have programmed their radios, or indeed know what the splits are if entering another area! There is a discussion about this on the Yahoo! group as I speak between several members.

So, in conclusion, I would hold off until a standard is set, before spending your hard earned cash!

73's
G7EBY.
Neil.

[g7eby]

Here's the latest from the Yahoo D_Star group:

"Over the past 24hours all of the current UK D-Star systems that had
internet connections have now moved from the Test UK Trust Server
(system that basically co-ordinates and syncs updates from all the
D-Star gateways) to K5TIT which is the world wide Trust Server.

The following systems have moved over

GB7DG
GB7DS
GB7DX
GB7FK
GB7IC
GB7MI
GB7YD

To see the activity on theses systems plus a list of all the other G2
Gateways around the world (with the exception of Japan) please click
on the link below or copy and past it into your webbrowser.



At the same time as moving the Gateways also upgraded to the latest
version of D-Starmonitor and for the systems running it, they report
back the GPS information rcvd from any users and you can then view
this at try

Regards
John GM0OPS"

K5TIT is based in Texas and gives worldwide (except Japan) interconectivity to all the nodes on it's server.



Some still have not got an internet connection yet, mainly due to people scratching their heads with the Icom gateway software. The Linux operating system does seem to be still foxing a few users also.

I have been told, there is a possibility of getting a 'D-Star program' in the future, that will enable those of us who want to try the mode on a PC without any additional hardware is quite likely.
This would be good for anyone (like myself) that doesn't want to spend £500+ for another radio with one extra mode on it, just to try it out.

No doubt the price of the radios will come down in time as more are bought.
You can use at the moment as a cheaper option, the 'DV Dongle' available from the states for about $200 (~£100). It looks like a lot of fiddling around to have this, a PC and a headset just to use the mode though.

See here:


Will keep you all updated as soon as something worth reporting comes up!

73's

Neil.
G7EBY

[g3zxx]

Hi All,

I have just received the following e-mail from Matt, G4RKY, which I felt may well be of interest to those who follow this thread.........

"For those of you interested in D-Star, the new digital voice and data mode available on some models of Icom radio, I have set up a separate Yahoo Group for discussion of and announcements relating to this new mode and developments in this geographical area.

The reason for this is that not everyone is interested in D-Star and that is the beauty of Yahoo Groups, that you get to choose what you read about in your inbox every day. If you dont want to know about D-Star then dont join up!!! That way there can be no complaints!!!

There's a lot of things in the pipeline regarding this new mode and some of us are getting very excited about the developments.

Although, not much has happened in this geographical area yet, I am sure that there are many things going on in the background and so I just wanted to bring it all together in one place, away from the "background noise" on other d-star email groups. Keeping it specific to this area of the country should provide a focus for the developments that are going on.

If you're interested in D-star then just join up to the email list. To subscribe, send an email to:



regards,

Matt
G4RKY"

Cheers & 73's
Dave, G3ZXX

[g7eby]

Hi all,

Not posted for a while, thought I'd better crawl out of the woodwork while I still have an internet connection.

We have GB7MM now, down in the Wimbourne area, and for those that don't know, myself, M3OPW, G7MYI and a few others have indeed purchased D-Star radios.

What can I say so far? A bit of a disaster as far as it goes! I cannot access MM from the home QTH, and nor could Harold (M3OPW) for the first few weeks. (Harold has put up an 8 ele beam.) It does, however, seem to reach to Taunton!

G3UNR has said they will be changing the site to allow users in Salisbury to access it, without difficulty, but so far we seem to have drop-outs on the MM box quite regular. (Long periods of silence when near to the box.)

I also noticed that Kevin, (G3UNR) was 'clearer' on the input than on the output. I suspect local QRM on or near the input frequency was causing this.

As far as other repeaters go, I have tried several on my long distance travels for work.

Kent area- got in, but nobody about.

Amersham- (UHF) GB7AU- exelent coverage, right down to Baisingstoke (Almost) and quite a way into West London and surrounding areas. I was getting in, having a 'local' QSO, but being blanked by people on the 'gateway' up North on several occasions when I de-keyed, so was the other station.

So, what can I say? It looks promising, but in the above situation, what's the score? My radio WAS set up correctly, but obviously the other users couldn't or didn't want to hear me! (Several emails to the AU keeper didn't seem to resolve the problem.)

Personally, I would of gone for TRBO, the new PMR digi-mode. One RF channel (12.5KHz) gives you TWO voice channels for your money.
Not sure of the quality, but doubling the bandwidth at no extra cost (or extra channels) certainly seems to be popular with tight fisted PMR users! (And annoy scanner users!) Portsmouth shopwatch certainly seem to be using the system as of late.

If we had this technology, we could have one 'channel' for a local QSO, and another for those wishing to use the gateways. (Out of area to another repeater.) All on one frequency.
I certainly was hoping that was what D-Star was going to be when I heard about it first, as did quite a few others.

Anyway, its here to stay, as the users grow, no doubt more and more interconnected 'gateways' will come on line and confuse us even more!

Best regards,

73's
Neil.
G7EBY.